Meet Dr. Dan German: The Doctor Helping Dentists Practice Orthodontics

[00:00:00] What made you go from orthodontics and have the foresight to clear aligners and then have the double foresight to open up and start OrthoBrain?

[00:00:07] I became to realize that orthodontics was much more cerebral than it was arts and crafts.

[00:00:13] Explain that.

[00:00:13] Prior to the direct bonded bracket, you used to make your own braces so you had to take metal and make it fit as a ring around the tooth, weld it, then you'd weld a bracket onto the band.

[00:00:23] You'd take a straight wire and you'd have to shape it with your hands in order to get it to fit. Like if you didn't have the hand skills, you couldn't be an orthodontist.

[00:00:30] Well now, all of a sudden with direct bonded brackets, I realized that I could teach anybody how to place the wires, deliver the care as long as I planned it, supervised it, and did all the course corrections.

[00:00:42] And at the same time, find out ways as we gravitated into the digital world, how do you incorporate the digital revolution into orthodontics?

[00:00:50] And so the first thing we did is we started creating digitally placed braces on teeth.

[00:01:00] Welcome to another episode of Dentistry Beyond the Numbers.

[00:01:05] I'm Dr. Mark Ligtang, and I'm so grateful from our last several episodes.

[00:01:10] You guys have been amazing. We've been growing.

[00:01:12] We've been excited about bringing you tremendous leaders in the industry.

[00:01:17] People you may have heard of, people you may not have heard of, but I know these are the doctors that have moved our industry, educating our doctors, and the future is incredible.

[00:01:27] You know, every email I get, every solicitation I get, it's all about growing your practice, booming your practice, getting first on everything through marketing.

[00:01:39] I'm a very large proponent and huge in favor, usually in favor of marketing.

[00:01:46] But without the procedures behind us, without doing the dentistry, that is what needs to be done to grow.

[00:01:53] We cannot, we should not be doing marketing because we need to get our home base ready.

[00:01:59] And that's why we are on the cusp, for lack of a better word, of just bringing you some really passionate, advanced clinicians that have moved the industry.

[00:02:11] And without further ado, I am absolutely been waiting for this gentleman.

[00:02:16] He's been traveling the world, building his company, building his brand, and he's been doing an amazing job.

[00:02:22] But I find his brand is so educational and we're going to get into all of it.

[00:02:27] Without further ado, the inventor, president, whatever you want to call him, chief doctor, and an amazing human getting to know him for the last year or two, as well as I have.

[00:02:37] Dr. Dan Gurman from OrthoBrain, welcome to Dentistry Beyond the Numbers.

[00:02:42] I am so excited to have you, Dan.

[00:02:44] I don't live in a time zone, as you heard from Mark, and I have to start by saying thank you.

[00:02:50] Mark, what you have done for our profession, you've added a piece of our education that has been so sorely missed.

[00:02:58] When you go through your formal dental education, this concept of super dentist and being able to provide all these services that our patients want, it's been missed.

[00:03:10] And so I just want to express gratitude on behalf of all of us who have been learning from you.

[00:03:14] So thank you for doing this.

[00:03:15] And of course, I'm honored to be one of your guests.

[00:03:18] Yes, my actually, you know, Dan, as a snap on smile inventor and guy who brought a company to market, I am amazed.

[00:03:26] I'm amazed that you can bring something with the behemoths of the world ahead of you.

[00:03:31] And we're going to get into that as they were first in the market.

[00:03:34] You have been persistent and I'm getting to know your product very well.

[00:03:38] And it is all about progression, advancement, education, and you do more cases.

[00:03:44] And that is absolutely what we heard as we grew up.

[00:03:47] You get your knowledge base, you'll do more.

[00:03:50] Let me ask you a question.

[00:03:51] I mean, when you were growing up and you were a very bright, well-learned, passionate man, what made you, what did you want to do when you were in your formative years, as they say?

[00:04:03] All right, listen, Mark, this is a V for vulnerable.

[00:04:06] I'm going to tell you the truth.

[00:04:07] Yes, here's the answer.

[00:04:08] I wanted to play football at the Ohio State University like my father did.

[00:04:13] And when I finished my career there, I wanted to enter the Olympics as a weightlifter.

[00:04:18] And I was very passionate about sports.

[00:04:22] I loved the competitive nature of it.

[00:04:24] I liked the opportunity to excel in what you're doing.

[00:04:28] And that's what I worked on.

[00:04:30] And so early in my education, I was not a stellar student.

[00:04:34] I certainly didn't have the credentials in junior high and high school that you would expect from, from, you know, probably the CV if you were ever to read my.

[00:04:43] From the head of what the brain.

[00:04:45] Exactly.

[00:04:46] So that's where I started was, was really wanting to being, I wanted to be an excellent athlete.

[00:04:52] And the idea was whatever I chose to do, I wanted to be the very best at it.

[00:04:58] And has that, well, let me ask you, has that taken you on from dentistry to want to strive to be in orthodontics, take that next level?

[00:05:08] What made you go from now you're saying I'm a dentist and then you say, it's not enough.

[00:05:13] I want to be an orthodontist.

[00:05:14] What, what, what made you think ortho was the way your passion?

[00:05:18] Obviously you picked the right, the right specialty.

[00:05:21] So I'm just, just asking how does one do that?

[00:05:24] Yeah.

[00:05:24] So the, what happened was you finally realize that you are not the best in the world when it comes to sports.

[00:05:31] There's so many incredible athletes.

[00:05:33] And once that became apparent, then I turned all that energy into my education and really worked hard at excelling as an undergrad.

[00:05:40] And then in dental school, why did I go to dental school?

[00:05:44] Because that's what my parents told me I should do.

[00:05:46] You know, you're going to be a doctor or you're going to be a lawyer.

[00:05:49] Those are your two options.

[00:05:50] And I said, well, I'll be a doctor, but I don't want to be on call all the time.

[00:05:53] I don't want to work.

[00:05:55] I don't want to work 18 hours a day.

[00:05:57] I want to be able to spend time with the family.

[00:05:58] So I thought, wow, I'll go into dentistry.

[00:06:00] I had some excellent mentors.

[00:06:03] And I'll tell you something.

[00:06:04] This sounds like a giant nerd.

[00:06:06] Maybe it was a glimpse into what I became.

[00:06:09] While I was still an athlete in high school, my local dentist took me to the American, not the American, the Ohio Dental Association annual meeting in Columbus, Ohio.

[00:06:18] 1978.

[00:06:18] I'm in high school.

[00:06:20] He says, you should look at dentistry after you're finished with your sports career.

[00:06:23] So I go and I go to the Ohio Dental Association.

[00:06:26] I am the only non-dentist or non-dental team member that's there.

[00:06:29] I sit down in a big giant room and guess who's teaching?

[00:06:34] Ronald Goldstein.

[00:06:36] Now, in 1978, this idea of aesthetic and cosmetic dentistry was really barely hatched.

[00:06:42] And he showed this.

[00:06:43] I said, you know what?

[00:06:44] I can change people's lives by being able to do that.

[00:06:47] Take the good hands that I've got from sports and leverage that into becoming a dentist.

[00:06:52] So then I go to dental school.

[00:06:54] And as I'm going through dental school, I was very frustrated with my inability to do it perfectly.

[00:07:00] Could not get the margins the way I wanted them ever.

[00:07:03] And I thought I was a pretty mediocre dentist.

[00:07:05] I said, there is no way I have the ability to learn how to do all these different procedures at the level I'm trying to do them.

[00:07:11] I thought I was, I thought it was a terrible dentist.

[00:07:14] I didn't realize that dentistry is just flat out hard.

[00:07:17] But before that, I said, well, maybe if I specialize and I just figure out how to do one thing well, that I'll do that.

[00:07:24] So that's how I ended up in orthodontics, just so I could find a part of dentistry that I could do really well by focusing in on it.

[00:07:31] And of course, I was wrong.

[00:07:32] You're never perfect in orthodontics either.

[00:07:34] But back then, I mean, they weren't teaching you clear aligners.

[00:07:38] They were teaching you bracketed and, you know, banded.

[00:07:41] So what made you go from orthodontics and have the foresight to clear aligners and then have the double foresight and the really passion to open up and start ortho brain?

[00:07:52] I mean, that is a tremendous leap.

[00:07:54] I mean, was there a timeframe where you just perfected your craft and then went into clear aligners or did that start early on?

[00:08:01] I know you were a very big provider, if not one of the biggest in the country in Invisalign.

[00:08:07] I mean, let's just say it straight.

[00:08:09] You were number one or top.

[00:08:11] You tell us.

[00:08:11] Where were you with that?

[00:08:13] Well, yeah, I guess that's the end of the story.

[00:08:15] So for two years, I can't remember if it's 2008, 9, 10, 11, somewhere in that area, Invisalign gamified everything.

[00:08:21] And so they had a number one and they posted it at their annual meeting.

[00:08:25] They call it the summit.

[00:08:26] And we walked in there and it was a decision the team made that we wanted to be number one at all of that.

[00:08:33] But you're right.

[00:08:34] When I started my orthodontic residency in the mid 80s, orthodontic residencies were primarily treating 12 year olds with crooked teeth.

[00:08:41] Very little.

[00:08:42] Maybe I had one adult.

[00:08:43] I don't even know if I had an adult.

[00:08:45] Many residents didn't have an adult patient, nor did they have a little child in the mixed dentition.

[00:08:51] Right.

[00:08:52] And so there was plenty of work for the orthodontist to do straightening crooked teeth on 12 year olds.

[00:08:57] When I went into practice, kind of leveraging my obsession with trying to know everything.

[00:09:02] I took on some of these harder cases and became very comfortable with treating complex perio, complex, multidisciplinary, interdisciplinary, churning multidiscipline, multiple disciplines into an inter where we work together.

[00:09:19] That's when I learned how to collaborate with the general practitioner, the periodontist, the prosthodontist, huddle up and come up with a comprehensive plan for a patient.

[00:09:29] So, you know, it's it's braces and wires dentistry.

[00:09:33] We had interceptive.

[00:09:34] I was treating adults and I became to realize that orthodontics was much more cerebral than it was arts and crafts.

[00:09:42] Explain that.

[00:09:44] Well, prior to the direct bonded bracket, you used to make your own braces.

[00:09:49] So you had to take metal and make it fit as a ring around the tooth, weld it.

[00:09:53] Then you'd weld a bracket on to the to the ring, the band.

[00:09:57] And you take a straight wire and you'd have to shape it with your hands in order to get it to fit.

[00:10:01] Like it was if you didn't have the hand skills, you couldn't be an orthodontist.

[00:10:05] Well, now all of a sudden with direct bonded brackets and the brackets having tilts and angles to them so that you don't have to bend the wire so much.

[00:10:12] It became a cerebral game.

[00:10:14] I realized that I could teach anybody how to place the wires, how to do the actual orthodontics, deliver the care as long as I planned it, supervised it and did all the course corrections.

[00:10:27] And so as we embarked upon that transformation, I found that allowed me to interact with the patients and build relationships, build vision within the practice and build a much bigger practice so that the practice became a true mega practice.

[00:10:40] And at the same time, find out ways as we gravitated into the digital world, how do you incorporate the digital revolution into orthodontics?

[00:10:49] And so the first thing we did is we started creating digitally placed braces.

[00:10:54] Hold on.

[00:10:55] Hold on.

[00:10:56] Because you can go and I want to make sure we get the whole plan.

[00:11:00] That is going to be down the road.

[00:11:01] But I do want to know in the last 10 years of your career, before we get into that, I want to know how you set this up.

[00:11:08] You obviously saw something with clear aligners.

[00:11:11] Yes.

[00:11:12] I mean, you saw not only you saw something that was a miss.

[00:11:17] I mean, I know a lot of cases that were started.

[00:11:19] I'm not we're not naming things, but, you know, that was started may have been over the head of some of the dentists that, you know, we'll get into some of that down the road.

[00:11:27] But how did you foresee in 10 years ago that clear aligners and ortho brain in particular?

[00:11:33] Because how long has ortho brain been around now?

[00:11:37] Right.

[00:11:38] How did you start that?

[00:11:39] And how did you have the foresight to say this, not making the trays that bond the brackets?

[00:11:45] I'm going to do clear aligners that are going to give, you know, we're going to talk about the difference between your vision and the visions of other clear aligners.

[00:11:52] But tell me how you had that foresight 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

[00:11:56] What made you see that?

[00:11:57] Exactly.

[00:11:58] So once we did those bonded trays, I realized that we could do that with aligners without the brackets.

[00:12:03] And so we had our own private laboratory where we made appliances for my local general dentist.

[00:12:09] And we would make a series of these trays in my lab to straighten teeth without braces.

[00:12:14] Aha.

[00:12:15] This is really cool.

[00:12:16] And I found that it was invented in the 1930s by a genius from a, that built another company.

[00:12:22] And so all of a sudden we started embracing this whole idea of moving teeth with small movements using laboratory fabricated aligners.

[00:12:31] Here comes Invisalign and Invisalign changed the world because they were able to mass produce them.

[00:12:40] They operationalized that process by taking additional technology.

[00:12:44] And now all of a sudden you could make aligners at scale.

[00:12:47] Now it was a rough road, like in 1999, when we started doing it, it didn't work all that well.

[00:12:53] You know, you would sometimes basically have to pry an aligner off the teeth.

[00:12:57] We think there were all kinds of hiccups in the system, but yet that was the genesis of doing the aligners.

[00:13:03] So once the systems started working predictably, then we were able to gravitate into using that comprehensively in our practice.

[00:13:12] And once we did that, you combine that with all the seminars I was giving.

[00:13:17] And every time I'd give a seminar, somebody would send me records and say, hey, what should I do with this patient?

[00:13:21] How do I fix this? How do I do that?

[00:13:23] And we were doing digital orthodontics while I had my full-time private patient.

[00:13:27] And then we were doing this for some of the practice.

[00:13:28] We had a, we ended up doing this for some celebrity orthodontists who needed help working with aligners.

[00:13:36] And all of a sudden the bell rang and I said, the light went off.

[00:13:40] Wow. We could monetize this, which is good, which is, which is a good commercialization of it.

[00:13:47] But this, this mark is how you change the way we are able to reach the people that want treatment.

[00:13:55] So when you say, what's the genesis of the ortho brain?

[00:13:58] We solve a problem that is a better solution than the direct-to-consumer, direct-to-patient was offering.

[00:14:06] And do you think the general dentist would be competent?

[00:14:12] We're talking about, like, obviously I'm talking about a super generalist because that's the focus.

[00:14:16] We want to build great dentists.

[00:14:18] And I believe dentists are out there to be built, but would you say that is the market or the path of least resistance to get to the general population?

[00:14:26] I mean, they're coming in for the recalls.

[00:14:29] Was that your, was that, is that the thinking in general?

[00:14:32] I think that's the thinking before ortho brain and now.

[00:14:35] Is that correct?

[00:14:35] Yes, it's correct.

[00:14:36] The thinking is, it's going to sound like I'm disparaging my profession, which I love.

[00:14:40] I love orthodontics.

[00:14:42] Orthodontics did not answer the need of the public because we were treating way too few adults in our orthodontic practices.

[00:14:48] Adults don't like going to a juvenile practice where you've got kids climbing the walls and playing in the sinks.

[00:14:53] And you're wearing a business attire and you're going to walk in or your lady in a dress.

[00:14:57] You're going to lie down in an open bay.

[00:14:59] We weren't treating the public and Wall Street.

[00:15:02] We're in this great capitalist country.

[00:15:04] Wall Street answered it.

[00:15:05] They invented Smile Direct Club and two or three of these direct to consumers.

[00:15:09] That's right.

[00:15:10] And so they were answering the need of the public.

[00:15:13] We treat a fraction of 1% of the world population every year with orthodontics.

[00:15:18] 70% would benefit from it.

[00:15:19] That means the addressable market is 500 million to a billion people that are in need of treatment.

[00:15:26] Orthodontists can't do all that.

[00:15:27] We need the primary care to be able to deliver the care.

[00:15:31] And that's where OrthoBrain comes in.

[00:15:33] And I believe, having done this now since 2018 as a formalized business, that a general dentist, a pediatric dentist can deliver the care and deliver it at a level that is on the same quality and experience for a patient as a specialist.

[00:15:55] However, there's an added bonus.

[00:15:57] And that is because as a general practitioner or primary care provider, you have vast knowledge of all the other disciplines in dentistry because you actually do them.

[00:16:06] You didn't just study them.

[00:16:08] And that's where we coined this term orthodentistry.

[00:16:11] Well, you're doing orthodontics, but you're adding in the holistic nature of bringing in airway, perio, prosto, implants, right?

[00:16:24] Cosmetics.

[00:16:24] Cosmetics.

[00:16:25] All the aesthetics are all folded into your knowledge base and you know how to set up the case so that you can restore it the way is indicated.

[00:16:35] I'm just going to throw something in.

[00:16:36] I have a couple of docs that are doing great cases now with you guys that are literally separating teeth.

[00:16:41] For those of you listening that do veneers in an excessive way, not drilling the tooth or prepping more.

[00:16:47] They're separating, giving ideal proximity into proximal spaces between the teeth to put on a perfect, beautiful restoration instead of just prepping teeth down to needless nubs and a little bit of a prep that can open up to further damage, gum disease, root canal therapy, and such.

[00:17:06] But this is amazing because you're guiding the doctors.

[00:17:12] I'm curious to know the difference between OrthoBrain and other clear aligners in your mind.

[00:17:18] Is it that hand-holding that you developed or take it from there?

[00:17:24] I mean, I'm just interested in seeing how does OrthoBrain, you know, when you go to practice on Main Street and they never deep clear aligners, how hard is it to integrate your product, your company, your modality into their practice?

[00:17:39] I mean, what do they need?

[00:17:40] How do they get started?

[00:17:42] Is there a course to take?

[00:17:43] Yeah.

[00:17:44] So the difference, I think we'll start with the beginning at the difference.

[00:17:47] What's the difference?

[00:17:47] When you start with most of the major aligner vendors, you're going to sign a terms and conditions that's going to say there's no diagnosis, there's no treatment plan.

[00:17:56] We are essentially, we're a liner manufacturer.

[00:18:00] All right?

[00:18:01] We're going to tell you, we're going to make a diagnosis of the imagery that you send us.

[00:18:06] Everything you send us, you're going to get a problem list from an orthodontist.

[00:18:10] You're going to get a prognosis from an orthodontist.

[00:18:13] The orthodontist is going to review all your imagery, your photos, your x-rays, your STL file, your aligner setup, and they're going to show you everything that they see and teach you everything you need to know about that particular patient.

[00:18:25] That's unique in the industry.

[00:18:26] I don't know of anybody else who's doing that, certainly none of the major vendors.

[00:18:31] Then the plot thickens because you've got an entire virtual team that happens to be in this office space that I'm in right now with workstations ready to receive your questions.

[00:18:40] So you send us questions, you send us imagery and say, hey, I'm in the middle of the treatment.

[00:18:45] How do I blank?

[00:18:46] And you get our team that are all expert.

[00:18:49] And it could be a clinical question or it could be, how do I explain what IPR is to a patient without scaring them?

[00:18:55] How do I do a case presentation?

[00:18:57] Whatever it is, we take a circumspect look at everything you need in order to be successful.

[00:19:02] And we have an entire team of experts ready to hand that to you.

[00:19:05] So when you're talking about the differences, the only thing we have in common with the other vendors is that we manufacture plastic and we manufacture our simply braces.

[00:19:16] Those things are similar.

[00:19:18] What we give you is everything else that you need in order to be successful, which happens to be much greater than the clinical part.

[00:19:25] That clinical part is one spoke and we'll give you that at the highest level.

[00:19:29] And we will stick our neck out with what we tell you.

[00:19:33] And we're just agreeing that that's what it is.

[00:19:35] And then in my career, I treated about 30,000 patients.

[00:19:39] At one time, we had probably one of the biggest orthodontic practices in the country.

[00:19:43] Any system that we developed that we used, you can take a USB cord figuratively and it's all yours.

[00:19:50] We will give you everything you need to drive your success to the level that you want to go.

[00:19:55] I want to add to that, you know, because I'm seeing doctors again, the general dentist or the super generalist that could do so many different modalities.

[00:20:05] And being a Penn grad and a fellowship in prosthetics at Penn, I was drilled to two things.

[00:20:11] Perio, the periodontium around our cases and occlusion.

[00:20:15] The one thing that will fail the longevity of our cases are both of those aspects.

[00:20:22] Having a weak foundation and not addressing the perio, but more importantly was the occlusion.

[00:20:27] Because after you knew the perio, it's the excursives, the laterals, the protrusive movements that could damage your cosmetic aesthetic cases, implants, crowns with too much load.

[00:20:36] I see that every case that comes in and I'm watching the doctors get that disc and watch the treatment plan and understand new things.

[00:20:45] It to me, and I want you to elaborate on this.

[00:20:48] It seems to me that I think the biggest advantage they're getting right now is every case is a CE course.

[00:20:56] Every case comes back and I hear, you know, I never thought of that.

[00:21:00] That's great.

[00:21:00] But like things that IPR to extend this, rotate this tooth because it is out of occlusion.

[00:21:07] And they really put that platform, that plan into work for the doctor.

[00:21:12] Just tell me how that helps with all the modalities of dentistry and how it really educates the clinician.

[00:21:18] Right.

[00:21:19] And I think one of the points is we start from the outside and work our way in.

[00:21:24] So attached to every set of teeth is a precious person.

[00:21:27] We'll call them patients.

[00:21:29] And so when our experts are looking at your patient, they're going to start by looking at the face and seeing whether or not they see evidence of airway issues and other macroscopic problems before they work their way in.

[00:21:41] The level of detail that you want is up to you in that video so that you're able to interact with the orthodontist and say, hey, I want to go deep.

[00:21:50] I haven't treated patients with ortho that are missing lower second premolars.

[00:21:54] What do I do with that retained deciduous tooth?

[00:21:56] Tell me everything.

[00:21:57] I want to know what the literature says and I want to know how to manage this case.

[00:22:00] And then I'll know next time.

[00:22:01] When you learn by doing and you take the information on with the patient that you're treating, it goes into your bones.

[00:22:08] You will remember it forever.

[00:22:10] It's so much different than sitting in a classroom when you try and learn everything.

[00:22:14] And it's not on the shelf.

[00:22:16] You can't just pull it out.

[00:22:18] And these are clinical orthodontists that are literally educating and guiding these clinicians through this case.

[00:22:26] Is that right?

[00:22:27] A hundred percent.

[00:22:28] All the way until the finish and beyond.

[00:22:30] So once you start a case with us, a patient with us, you own us and our support team until your patient is a raving fan.

[00:22:40] You're a raving fan.

[00:22:41] Somebody says, we're finished.

[00:22:43] You know?

[00:22:44] Well, personally, I don't like the Ravens.

[00:22:47] But you could be a raving fan.

[00:22:49] I'm a giant fan.

[00:22:51] I'll stick to it.

[00:22:52] But I want to tell you something.

[00:22:54] I think people out there need to hear that again because, you know, it's very rare in any of the fields.

[00:22:59] And look, to be transparent, I have no gain financially.

[00:23:03] I look for things to bring my listeners and you guys out there any way to educate and elevate our ability to deliver quality, caring, longevity-driven dentistry.

[00:23:17] And we want people to feel like we're giving them a product that is absolutely outstanding, number one, the best, and will last the longest.

[00:23:27] And if we're not addressing certain things that these type of situations arise, this is going to cause failure.

[00:23:34] And I believe as we grow older, as we grow more experienced, we want to have everything under our thumb in our arm and terry to deliver quality dentistry.

[00:23:45] My feeling is that where do you see something like this going in 10 years for somebody who says, I want to incorporate this.

[00:23:53] I'm excited.

[00:23:54] I have a hand holding.

[00:23:56] Now, I love all the clear aligners out there.

[00:23:59] I think they all serve a purpose.

[00:24:01] And do not get me wrong.

[00:24:02] I'm not here to advertise anything.

[00:24:04] But what I feel and I've seen personally is one of the biggest obstacles for practices, how do we bring it in?

[00:24:12] Do we need a scanner?

[00:24:13] Well, let's talk about that for one second.

[00:24:16] I mean, you know, a big thing with dentistry is we've developed this scanning situation where a lot of companies are catacombing, you know, gearing us and sort of funneling us to a certain type of scanner.

[00:24:30] How does it work with OrthoBrain?

[00:24:31] Do we need scanners?

[00:24:33] Is that the way it has to be incorporated?

[00:24:35] Tell me about that before we go on.

[00:24:38] Yeah, we highly advocate for intraoral scanners.

[00:24:42] Huge believer, early adopter.

[00:24:44] In fact, I think I could have had the first iTero.

[00:24:46] I'm not sure.

[00:24:47] It's a great machine.

[00:24:48] There are a lot of great machines out there right now.

[00:24:51] Our company, don't think of us as a vendor that provides aligners.

[00:24:54] We're a growth system for you and your practice.

[00:24:58] Therefore, however you want to get us an STL file is fine.

[00:25:03] Whatever scanner you have is fine.

[00:25:05] If you don't have a scanner, then you scan your impressions.

[00:25:08] Your local lab can do it.

[00:25:10] And if you don't have a local lab, then, you know, contact us.

[00:25:13] We have a system to get the thing scanned.

[00:25:15] And if you're looking for a scanner, we offer a scanner.

[00:25:18] We're not in the business of selling scanners.

[00:25:20] We are in the business of helping you grow your practice.

[00:25:23] So yes, it is agnostic.

[00:25:24] Love to all.

[00:25:26] We'll give you our opinion based on data as to which ones are the ones that are best.

[00:25:31] But nevertheless, that's, I think, the short answer to your question.

[00:25:35] It is.

[00:25:35] The only commercial I'm going to say for OrthoBrain is I have met a few of the people that work

[00:25:41] for you or with you and your teammates in OrthoBrain.

[00:25:46] And I'm not going to name them because I know Bob and Barbara and I know Dino.

[00:25:53] Who is it?

[00:25:54] Dino or Gina?

[00:25:54] Gina.

[00:25:55] I know he's...

[00:25:56] You've got D and Gino.

[00:25:57] So you've like combined two amazing rock stars.

[00:26:00] Gino is...

[00:26:01] You just have a great team that did some lecturing for us.

[00:26:04] And I must tell you, they are knowledgeable and caring, just like you, Dan.

[00:26:08] It's really amazing.

[00:26:10] And every company has that.

[00:26:12] But I do feel that when the path of entry into a modality of dentistry doesn't include

[00:26:19] spending thousands and thousands of dollars to see if it's good in your hands.

[00:26:23] You know, we used to say in dentistry, what works in your hands?

[00:26:27] We kind of take that away now because there's so...

[00:26:30] Like, look, when I was doing Crown and Bridge impressions at Penn, we were cutting copper

[00:26:35] bands.

[00:26:35] And I used to ask, this is archaic.

[00:26:37] But it got you to understand what you're looking for when you place cord or a little bit of a,

[00:26:44] you know, a cord-like type of material to make life easier for us.

[00:26:49] But the basics are important.

[00:26:51] So if you tell us something about your support and where you guys are geared towards to helping

[00:26:58] practices get up and, like you say, develop the practice.

[00:27:02] So what do you see in your reporting, in your knowledge about how much could this increase

[00:27:09] the revenue?

[00:27:10] And does it change exponentially because you're bringing more things in?

[00:27:14] What have you seen from your studies and your work?

[00:27:17] A first unanticipated benefit.

[00:27:21] And that is that you end up doing a lot more restorative and cosmetic work.

[00:27:24] So when you take somebody's aligners or braces off, they're going to take a mirror.

[00:27:28] They're going to go like this.

[00:27:29] They're going to have it right.

[00:27:29] And they're going to say, hey, I got a little of this.

[00:27:31] I got a little of that.

[00:27:32] How do we make that better?

[00:27:33] Bam.

[00:27:33] Now your team goes in.

[00:27:34] Now we set the table for that to happen because we create a personalized, informed consent

[00:27:40] for every patient.

[00:27:41] Our orthodontist will mention, let your patient know that at the end of treatment, they may

[00:27:46] notice some imperfections in their teeth that they're not aware of right now because the

[00:27:50] teeth are crooked.

[00:27:51] Let's table it.

[00:27:52] Just at the end of the treatment, we can have a conversation about how to put the icing

[00:27:57] on the cake if you want some additional aesthetic work.

[00:28:00] And now when they finish, that's when they bring it up.

[00:28:04] And so you're going to do more of that.

[00:28:05] In terms of the econometrics, this has got to be the most or one of the most powerful things

[00:28:11] you can do to increase not only your revenue, but your profitability.

[00:28:15] Your margins are crazy good with orthodontics.

[00:28:19] And intuitively, you know that.

[00:28:20] I'll just tell you, the average orthodontist works three and a half days a week.

[00:28:23] That's all they work.

[00:28:24] I have a chart with the most recent published earnings of where they are.

[00:28:28] And there's a huge discrepancy in earnings because it's a very profitable thing to do.

[00:28:34] So you ought to earn at a minimum $1,400 per hour of orthodontic time you put in as a doctor

[00:28:42] if you follow the ortho brain way.

[00:28:45] And that's assuming that you've got a fee of around $4,800 per patient, somewhere in that

[00:28:50] range.

[00:28:50] But you're talking about $1,400 an hour.

[00:28:53] And you go, well, you should know that number.

[00:28:55] If you don't, I'll tell you the average, according to the American Dental Association, and you

[00:28:59] could just go to Dr. Google and ask.

[00:29:02] It'll be about $85, $88 per hour that a general dentist puts in.

[00:29:07] This is $1,400 an hour.

[00:29:09] And guess what?

[00:29:10] There's no prescriptions.

[00:29:12] There's no injections.

[00:29:13] There's no sedation.

[00:29:14] There's no blood.

[00:29:15] There's no blood.

[00:29:17] You can delegate most of the actual hands-on.

[00:29:21] And I say that unashamed.

[00:29:23] That's what we did in my practice.

[00:29:24] I was the conductor of a beautiful symphony orchestra of efficiency, excellence, predictability,

[00:29:31] and profitability.

[00:29:32] That's what orthodontics is.

[00:29:34] That's why you get guys at this stage in their career, I don't have a headache in my

[00:29:38] neck.

[00:29:38] I don't have any medical problems related to practicing for all these years because I wasn't

[00:29:43] hunched over in a chair.

[00:29:44] So a lot of our doctors will gravitate towards that and say, hey, this is a focus that I want

[00:29:49] to take on.

[00:29:49] Maybe I'll get an associate to do more of the drill and fill.

[00:29:52] Right.

[00:29:53] It's amazing.

[00:29:54] Last week I spoke about a dentist that over the years with training went from $65,000 a

[00:30:00] month production, along what you're saying, to $135,000.

[00:30:04] One of the things he increased, not only implant placement, was he went from maybe one clear

[00:30:09] aligners a month to between nine and 11 clear aligners a month.

[00:30:13] So what I would tell you is doing 10 clear aligners a month, you're sitting there with $60,000, $50,000,

[00:30:20] $60,000 without even stressing because your staff is scanning the patients.

[00:30:25] You're directing the case.

[00:30:28] And it's absolutely incredible.

[00:30:31] And with more accessibility and super generalists, great dentists that are being trained, what trends do you see in the orthodontics and general dentistry in the next five to 10 years?

[00:30:43] I mean, you alluded to the billion of people.

[00:30:45] But if you had your choice now, like I see periodontists.

[00:30:49] And really, also, I want to know what you feel about the orthodontist.

[00:30:53] Periodontist today is a tough specialty because implants are being done by the dentists.

[00:31:01] I mean, vendors have made implant placement, especially with a scan, right?

[00:31:07] You have a stint, a guided stint.

[00:31:11] So you're putting them in holes that you can't miss.

[00:31:13] What do you foresee?

[00:31:14] So periodontists really are treating perio or doing very large cases.

[00:31:18] How do you see the increase in ortho and general dentistry?

[00:31:22] And what's the role in the future of the orthodontist?

[00:31:26] So, yeah.

[00:31:26] So the orthodontist is not only relevant, but I believe requisite.

[00:31:33] Why?

[00:31:34] Because every case that's treated by a non-orthodontist has the ability to have oversight by orthodontic experts.

[00:31:42] So if you're an orthodontist and you don't know how to play nicely with your team, or you're trying to practice in an area where it's saturated with orthodontists because everybody wants to, like, who wouldn't want to live in Cleveland, Ohio, right?

[00:31:53] So we've got a lot of orthodontists here.

[00:31:55] But the idea is that the orthodontist has a different model in which they can work because we're not cannibalizing the market.

[00:32:04] We're growing it.

[00:32:06] Most of the work that we're seeing is coming in from dentists treating adults that are much more comfortable in a general practice receiving their treatment.

[00:32:16] And so the two points are, one, we're growing the market.

[00:32:21] And so there's a lot of work for orthodontists.

[00:32:25] And that is doing the supervision that we talked about and also doing the special problems.

[00:32:31] Specialists are to come up with special solutions for special problems.

[00:32:35] So you have somebody who needs orthodontic surgery.

[00:32:37] They've got cleft lip, cleft palate, hemifacial microsomia.

[00:32:41] They've got impacted teeth.

[00:32:43] They've got craniofacial dysostosis.

[00:32:45] Whatever their ailment is or maybe there are special needs.

[00:32:49] We tell the dentist, hey, Mark, giving you a heads up, this might be one to refer to your orthodontist.

[00:32:55] It's not that you can't do it, but it might be disruptive.

[00:32:57] You might be better off going.

[00:32:58] So it's similar to the period.

[00:32:59] Go to the crown.

[00:33:01] And endo, you're going to get the tough cases.

[00:33:03] I mean, the easier cases, the cases that are adults wanting to get beautiful, straight, white teeth.

[00:33:09] That's going to be adult dentistry, supergeneralists, general dentistry that are incorporating ortho into their practice.

[00:33:16] But they're still, my point is, we are not able to treat it all.

[00:33:21] And what you just described in this list of modalities or abnormalities are, and clinical diagnoses need to learn by the supergeneralist, by the general dentist to refer.

[00:33:35] There's still going to be enough to go around.

[00:33:37] So orthodontists are going to really have to raise their game because they're going to know they're going to have much tougher cases, don't you think, in the next five to ten years?

[00:33:47] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:33:48] The profession will continue to advance, and the orthodontic specialist will remain relevant and, I believe, requisite.

[00:33:59] But I don't know what the disadvantage is of having an expert that's helping you and at your side, whether you feel like you need them or not.

[00:34:07] Probably one of our – I'll just tell you, we have a doctor whose outcomes are better than what I produced in my office.

[00:34:13] People thought I was really good at orthodontics, this general dentist.

[00:34:16] His cases are coming out better.

[00:34:19] He is just smoking good at finishing his cases.

[00:34:24] You know, when we were 20-something years old and somebody said, do you want to specialize?

[00:34:28] Nobody knew what they wanted to do.

[00:34:30] You spend 20 years building a family, building a career, building a practice.

[00:34:34] You realize you love certain things in dentistry.

[00:34:37] I might love all of dentistry.

[00:34:38] Like, I have young students that reach out to me and say, would you recommend me specializing?

[00:34:44] Well, I'm a guy who doesn't believe that you should specialize.

[00:34:47] I think we need specialists.

[00:34:49] But if you're asking me, I think with today's people like AuthorBrain and the education behind it, you could become great at something.

[00:34:58] You've got to learn what to punt, but you have that ability to grow.

[00:35:01] I do have a question about technology.

[00:35:04] We have so much technology going.

[00:35:06] And we just instituted some SprintRays, some printers and other companies as well.

[00:35:12] But you ever see a time when we do it in office, scan, print, and produce the trays?

[00:35:22] And could you imagine that day when we're sticking your treatment plan into a machine that prints out the trays,

[00:35:28] and therefore the lab and everything is incorporated in that disk because that's describing it?

[00:35:34] But go ahead.

[00:35:34] Do you see that where, you know, we do it with night guards.

[00:35:38] I mean, we're squashing night guards and we're printing night guards.

[00:35:41] So I'm just curious, do you see that down the road?

[00:35:44] Yes.

[00:35:45] And it's a default that people just gravitate right to it.

[00:35:48] We happen to have firsthand knowledge for a number of reasons.

[00:35:51] One of them is that we had some clients that were doing that.

[00:35:53] And so we did a beta test to see how it worked for them.

[00:35:55] We supported them.

[00:35:56] They printed their aligners.

[00:35:57] Almost all of them quit doing it.

[00:35:58] Like, well, it's, can I print the aligners, label them, package them, organize them, and you find somebody to do that in my office?

[00:36:10] And that that's better than doing dentistry.

[00:36:12] In other words, you've got a footprint in your office.

[00:36:15] Yes.

[00:36:16] You can do crowns, bridges, aesthetic dentistry, orthodontics.

[00:36:20] Right.

[00:36:20] That's my point.

[00:36:20] Do you want to use that real estate to do lab work?

[00:36:22] And can you do it as well as the professionals?

[00:36:25] And so, you know, the ability to print them, package them, label them, and have consistency where we say, I have yet to meet a client.

[00:36:34] I'm on the air, and this is going to be recorded, and I don't have any hesitation saying it.

[00:36:38] I don't know.

[00:36:39] I don't believe we've ever had a client say, hey, we got the first aligners, and they don't fit.

[00:36:44] Well, I had to really trim the heck out of them.

[00:36:46] It's never happened.

[00:36:47] Not even once.

[00:36:48] It will, but it hasn't.

[00:36:50] We have that consistency.

[00:36:51] When you start trying to do that stuff on your own, it's a whole other department in your practice.

[00:36:59] And you just have to think, do I want to be a laboratory?

[00:37:03] And you're going to be a laboratory.

[00:37:04] Is it really worth the liability aspect of just really not doing what you just said?

[00:37:12] I mean, I agree with you.

[00:37:14] There's economies of scale.

[00:37:16] There's making profit.

[00:37:17] But there's also doing quality, like I said, dentistry that lasts.

[00:37:22] And I think that leaving the clear aligners and the case presentation and then the case throughput has to be left to the experts.

[00:37:31] And I think one of the things you bring is, as we could tell, is the expertise that you guys are passionate about.

[00:37:38] And many companies are, but, Dan, it just comes out.

[00:37:42] I mean, you could talk to you for five minutes.

[00:37:44] It's been wonderful.

[00:37:45] You have a girth of knowledge.

[00:37:47] It's fantastic.

[00:37:49] Just curious.

[00:37:50] If somebody was coming to you, young student, junior in college, saying, I don't know what to do.

[00:37:55] I got into dental school.

[00:37:56] You think I should specialize?

[00:37:58] What would you say today?

[00:38:00] Would you say jump in?

[00:38:01] It's unbelievable.

[00:38:02] Or would you say just look at the vast fabric of dentistry?

[00:38:07] And what would you say?

[00:38:09] Yeah, it's a brilliant question.

[00:38:10] And I've had that question.

[00:38:11] I'm sure.

[00:38:12] I have a daughter that's a GP.

[00:38:13] And I have a son-in-law that's now an orthodontist.

[00:38:16] So that very thing came upon me.

[00:38:18] Here's how I would answer it.

[00:38:20] If in your bones, the same way I wanted to be an athlete and then I wanted to be this and that.

[00:38:24] Okay.

[00:38:24] If it's in your bones that you want to be a certain type of specialist, go for it.

[00:38:30] I wouldn't do it because you're going to make more money.

[00:38:32] I wouldn't do it because of social status.

[00:38:36] I would do it because that's what is in your bones.

[00:38:39] You feel that was your calling.

[00:38:40] On the other hand, if you're just not certain exactly what the nature of your practice ought

[00:38:46] to be, then I would be a general dentist.

[00:38:49] And I would really look for the opportunity to get abundant learning at the beginning and

[00:38:56] really figure out how you can bring the knowledge in.

[00:38:59] Because when you get out of dental school, I'll just tell you like it is, there's a huge

[00:39:02] divide between what you know when you get out of dental school and somebody who has been

[00:39:06] going to continuing education for 10, 20, 30 years.

[00:39:09] You accumulate so much knowledge, not just from being in the trenches or in the mouth, but

[00:39:15] from actually learning from all the experts that you can.

[00:39:18] And so I think that's the most exciting thing going on in dentistry is to be able to fold it

[00:39:24] all in.

[00:39:25] I think continuing education, like you alluded to in this conversation, over the shoulder

[00:39:30] type things are the best.

[00:39:32] I mean, we can go to a nice two day seminar and we take a lot of notes and we go in Monday

[00:39:36] and we're all excited.

[00:39:37] But when somebody's there walking you through a case, whether it be an all on X, a 12 unit,

[00:39:45] 10 unit veneer case or an orthodontic case, you've really presented chair side direction.

[00:39:53] And something to resort back to when you have questions.

[00:39:58] And then there's somebody you can call to ask if you have questions has been really uplifting

[00:40:03] for many of the clinicians that I'm seeing.

[00:40:06] It's really grown their, their ability to take on cases.

[00:40:09] I think it's really grown their ability to take on the cases they should not be taking

[00:40:15] on.

[00:40:16] They don't take them on the cases they should be taking on or feel comfortable, but they've

[00:40:20] learned this case is a little tricky.

[00:40:22] It's got a rotated canine.

[00:40:24] It's not going to, I would rather not deal with this punt.

[00:40:27] And I think that's what I'm seeing a lot of a lot more dentistry, a lot more ortho,

[00:40:32] but the ability to say, Hey, we got a lot of cases.

[00:40:34] This case needs to see a specialist.

[00:40:36] And I agree with that.

[00:40:38] This has been amazing.

[00:40:40] I think you're amazing, Dan.

[00:40:43] I've loved getting to know you and getting to know your company and the people around it.

[00:40:47] It's been a great joy.

[00:40:50] I'd be remiss in saying if somebody's, and when people are listening to this and they want

[00:40:55] to know, I've never heard of OrthoBrain.

[00:40:58] How do I find out more information?

[00:40:59] Is there a website or an email they can contact somebody to just find out?

[00:41:04] Because I kind of want them to make their choice, you know, and that's the goal here.

[00:41:09] Whatever's best in your hands.

[00:41:11] So tell me, is there some way to reach somebody or do we go online?

[00:41:15] What would you suggest?

[00:41:16] Yeah.

[00:41:17] Go to orthobrain.com and there's some basic information there.

[00:41:21] And then to reach us, the easiest way is to send a message to smile at orthobrain.com.

[00:41:28] Smile at orthobrain.com.

[00:41:30] And you will get a big smile in return for sure.

[00:41:33] You will feel it right over the phone or see it on the Zoom.

[00:41:36] As you said at the beginning, it's really, I have an incredible team that makes me look

[00:41:41] good all the time.

[00:41:43] And I must say they respect the heck out of you.

[00:41:46] And I think that is the culture that you bring.

[00:41:49] And you have attended.

[00:41:51] I got to tell you guys out there that Dr. Gurman attended a couple of late night courses

[00:41:58] and CE meetings with some of the docs in our group.

[00:42:02] And he has been amazing.

[00:42:04] They have been blown away.

[00:42:05] I want to just say something that, you know, we have, you know, we have a couple of people

[00:42:10] that presented, you know, my snap on, but his orthobrain and taking it to another level.

[00:42:16] Um, I think that the, the leaders, people like Dr. Gurman and others that have created

[00:42:22] things in dentistry are what we and how we should see the future.

[00:42:27] If you see a need in dentistry, if you see something that you can improve, don't hesitate

[00:42:32] to, to, to look into it and to really take back to another level.

[00:42:38] And if you see a problem in dentistry that you can help, that's why we got aesthetic dentistry,

[00:42:43] composite dentistry and various clear aligners that are now taking it to another level by

[00:42:50] utilizing experts to guide you through your cases.

[00:42:54] I, I think that's just crazy.

[00:42:57] I would love to have somebody guide me through implant placement or veneer placement.

[00:43:02] And I think that's coming too, but this is really the cutting edge of what we're all

[00:43:06] excited about for the next 10 years.

[00:43:08] I got to tell you, I wish you a Shana Tova, a happy new year.

[00:43:14] You're, you're a credit to our profession and many things other than that, but we're going

[00:43:20] to keep that, you know, between ourselves, but I really wish you a great new year.

[00:43:25] I thank you so much.

[00:43:26] I want to ask, is there anything you want to add that maybe I haven't covered and you

[00:43:31] think is important to the people out there?

[00:43:32] Yeah, I think that it's really important to find out who it is that you're associating

[00:43:40] with when you're getting your education.

[00:43:43] And because, you know, what comes into your head tends to stick throughout your career.

[00:43:48] And so I want you to bring abundant education in and really get it from the vetted experts,

[00:43:54] people who have really proven that look towards evidence-based dentistry, wherever it is, and they

[00:44:00] have proven systems, a lot, one thing that you'll know, you'll learn as you go through

[00:44:04] your career is a lot of things get recycled as being brand new, but they've, they're pulling

[00:44:08] them out of a hat, something that was there before.

[00:44:11] So finding good, true experts that look at evidence-based dentistry and are not just cheerleaders

[00:44:18] selling a product is really important.

[00:44:21] That would, that would be my punchline, you know?

[00:44:23] You know what I'm sitting here and I'm so proud of you and this discussion is not one

[00:44:29] time were you derogatory towards anything.

[00:44:32] Were you negative about any product, any body, any system?

[00:44:37] You just pro-ortho brain and you love the, the, you know, the interaction you have with the

[00:44:44] generalist, the interaction they have with their patient and the knowledge you bring them

[00:44:48] to advance their careers.

[00:44:49] I really think that that's the meaning of, can I say a true mensch?

[00:44:54] I mean, you've, you've laid out your, your system, your company, the people that work

[00:44:58] for you, it's a credit to you.

[00:45:00] And I think you're dead on.

[00:45:02] I think there's a lot of education out there.

[00:45:04] You find things that are, you said it best, evidence-based will advance your careers.

[00:45:11] People like yourself, KOLs that have been KOLs for many years and have seen the gentrification,

[00:45:16] the advancement of our systems and our careers and our field and our profession.

[00:45:22] I think you brought an amazing system and product to the market and we are so grateful

[00:45:27] you have.

[00:45:28] And I am so grateful that you spent a busy, busy day of just finding an hour or less to

[00:45:35] carve out for me.

[00:45:36] I thank you, Dan.

[00:45:37] And Dr.

[00:45:38] Gurman, thank you and thank your team for everything they do.

[00:45:41] And I really appreciate it.

[00:45:43] It was my pleasure.

[00:45:44] Thank you so much for your enlightenment.

[00:45:46] I appreciate it.

[00:45:47] All the best.

[00:45:47] And I'll talk to you shortly.

[00:45:49] Be well.

[00:45:50] I just wanted to say thank you to everyone out there.

[00:45:52] We are growing.

[00:45:53] We are excited.

[00:45:54] And, you know, Dentistry Beyond the Numbers' commitment is to bring you people like Dr.

[00:45:59] Dan Gurman, people that could advance your practice, your career, and your knowledge.

[00:46:03] To me, I am not going to sell you on better marketing, better chairs, better handpieces.

[00:46:10] I'm going to sell you on nothing but the presentations of various doctors that could enhance your

[00:46:17] knowledge-based careers.

[00:46:19] This is what sticks with you for years and years.

[00:46:23] And like we talked about now, whatever is going on in your careers now, in 10 years from

[00:46:28] now, you're going to be perfecting this.

[00:46:31] And you're really, if you enjoy orthodontics, you are really going to be, like Dr.

[00:46:40] That's Super Generalist, bringing you absolute modalities that will not only enhance your

[00:46:46] career, your practice, your revenue, but enhance other forms of dentistry.

[00:46:51] I wanted you to leave you with this one thing that I hope all of you caught.

[00:46:55] And that was that when we talk about different modalities, first of all, the start of some

[00:47:00] of these clear aligner cases are so easy.

[00:47:02] You're doing a disservice to your patients and to your practice.

[00:47:05] But forgetting about that, every modality you do will be enhanced by the knowledge you

[00:47:11] gain of doing something else, right?

[00:47:13] If you do orthodontics and you understand the proper plane of occlusions, you're going

[00:47:19] to have more successful veneers.

[00:47:21] Because the reason veneers fail, other than not putting them on right, but we're going to

[00:47:26] get into that down the road.

[00:47:27] We're going to have some awesome, awesome, fantastic doctors talking about laminates,

[00:47:32] cosmetics, and we're also going to get into understanding the level of practice management

[00:47:39] from leases to numbers and what bringing these modalities in mean.

[00:47:44] But the opportunity to get these modalities in your practice and really be confident in

[00:47:51] your ability to deliver this quality dentistry that Dr.

[00:47:56] Gurman alluded to.

[00:47:56] One of his associates or one of his residents became, in his mind, better than him at orthodontics

[00:48:04] and yet is still a general dentist.

[00:48:06] It's been something I've been preaching.

[00:48:08] Vendor dentistry.

[00:48:10] The vendors, like an OrthoBrain, like Invisalign, like various different products, Candid Pro,

[00:48:17] these things are out there.

[00:48:18] But I found that when you have somebody passionate that you just speak to, man, it just brings

[00:48:24] it back home and the knowledge is there and the support is there.

[00:48:28] You make your choices.

[00:48:30] You call who you like.

[00:48:33] But remember, the more you learn, the more you do.

[00:48:36] And the more you do, the more you really enjoy your career.

[00:48:40] So I just wanted to finish up by saying, look for more like this to come in the near future.

[00:48:46] We are so excited this lineup.

[00:48:47] As soon as we hammer it all down, we'll get back to you and we'll be back up in another

[00:48:53] two weeks.

[00:48:53] So give me your comments.

[00:48:56] Give me your ideas.

[00:48:58] Please share them with me.

[00:49:00] Try to be respectful.

[00:49:02] If you want to throw something at me, please do.

[00:49:04] But do it at the screen.

[00:49:06] But in all honesty, I love the way we're growing and I love we're sticking to our claim that

[00:49:10] we are here to make you better.

[00:49:12] Thank you so much.

[00:49:14] For those of you that are in any danger, please be safe out there.

[00:49:18] The weather has been horrific for some people and some listeners.

[00:49:22] For those of you that celebrate this weekend, have an easy fast.

[00:49:25] Have a good year.

[00:49:26] For those of you that don't, have a great weekend.

[00:49:28] Thank you so much.

[00:49:29] I'll see you on the other side.

[00:49:31] Dentistry Beyond the Numbers.

[00:49:32] Like us, follow us and comment about us.

[00:49:34] My name is Dr. Mark Ligtong.

[00:49:35] Thank you and see you on the other side.

[00:49:37] Bye-bye.